Forum:Sujesta: compra un domina nova
Me vole sujesta ce algun compra la dominas lingua-franca-nova.info e lingua-franca-nova.org pronto. Me pote compra la dominas, o alga otra person pote compra los. On pote compra dominas en multe locas -- per esemplo https://directnic.com. Estas dominas costa $9 e $15. 1) Me pensa ce LFN nesesa un domina ofisial: lingua-franca-nova.info 2) Me vole ce la disionario es otenable en lingua-franca-nova.info/disionario 3) Me vole aida con la loca de ueb, ma lo no es posible con http://webspace.ship.edu/ Daniel *Me gusta puntos 1 e 2, e me grasia tu per punto 3! Cisa la disionario a acel loca pote es min frecuente cambiada – car me esperia un pausa longa sempre cuando me visita la disionario enlinia presente, en cuando lo carga la fix de datos la plu nova. Sur la compra de dominas, Jorj debe deside; me mesma no vole promete me mone a un paia (an si peti) cual va repete a cada anio per sempre. Simon me va compra un domina. cual es plu usosa: .com o .org? si algun vole compra la nom con ".info", bon. si no, me no crede ce lo es multe importante ce nos ave du adirijes. me ave alga otra demandas: cual es plu bon: "lingua-franca-nova" o "linguafrancanova"? plu, esce nos continua usa webspace.ship.edu/cgboer per la pajes, con no plu ca un lia su "lingua-franca-nova..."? o pote nos usa otra locas ance? regardante #3, me pote fa cambias cual otras sujeste a la pajes a me adirije, o an dona la aseda a lo. me fida simon e, posible, otras. plu pensas? jorj :Sorry, I have to switch back to English here. I think you have persuaded me that ".com" might make sense. My geeky mind cannot forget that originally .com was for commercial enterprises, .org for non-profits, and .net for networking related organizations. But I realize that this distinction is largely lost today (for example: interlingua.com). :*Wikipedia says "eventually the distinction was lost when .com, .org and .net were opened for unrestricted registration". I've no real objection to .com, but does it really matter? People who haven't bookmarked the site will find it via a search engine (in which case the top-level domain suffix is entirely irrelevant), not by guessing randomly in their browser's address bar. Simon :Between "lingua-franca-nova" and "linguafrancanova" I prefer the former, as I find it easier to read. That said, I find the name of LFN a bit long and awkward. I wonder what you might think of "Lingua Nova" as accepted slang for the full name (just like "United States" is slang for "United States of America"). If you like the suggestion, you could consider buying "lingua-nova.org" which is available (the .com is taken, but not presently used for much). If you took both "lingua-nova.org" and "lingua-franca-nova.org", you could make one redirect to the other. :*I agree about the use of hyphens, although they're tedious to explain when giving a URL over the phone or on the radio. "Elefen" is an officially accepted short form, which I must confess to really liking. I see that "elefen.org" and "elefen.info" are both available, although "elefen.com" is taken. I don't like "Lingua Nova": it's too generic. I can see no benefit in buying two domains, other than to prevent cybersquatters (and it's impossible for anyone to buy all the possible similar domains). Simon :I have no opinion on the use of webspace.ship.edu/cgboer except to say that it should not be simply deleted because there are links and search engine results that point to it. If you decide that you are happy with how the "lingua...org" website is going, you can create a redirect, so that users and search engines get the correct website. :*I agree – we don't want bits and pieces of information scattered all over the place. That would just make it difficult to keep everything up to date. Simon :As for your last comment: The usual solution is to give people limited access, so they can create or edit pages, but you can revoke their account if there is a problem. When you first setup the host, you will have access to a "control panel". You only want to give the cPanel password to someone you trust. From the control panel, you can do things like install software or give FTP accounts. For example, you can install a website software called Joomla (available in most web hosts). I only used it briefly some years ago, but I found it user friendly. In Joomla, you would keep the "administrator" account to yourself and other people would have regular user accounts. The administrator can do things like lock pages, remove users, or approve trusted users, or whatever else the administrator needs. Daniel :*I've heard good things about Joomla. A content management system is surely a must these days. Cobbling together HTML pages by hand is no fun, and the results look cheap. Simon I am afraid that my knowledge of things internet are too limited for what you are discussing. I had the impression that all one bought was the name and maybe just enough space to add a redirect. Do you mean to say that the name comes with considerable space as well? *You can just buy a name and apply it to an existing server. More commonly, you buy a name and get a server with it, which just means you get some space to store static files (such as those on your own existing sites) plus the ability to run software (such as a content management system) that generates the pages for you. This wiki is a content management system – it gives you a nice(-ish) editor where you can focus on the content you're writing, and then it presents that content in a standard way (in this case, rather an ugly way, plastered with adverts and silly features). What Daniel's saying about passwords and accounts is not really any different to what you're already used to doing as an administrator on this wiki – you grant and revoke permissions. Simon **and does this space cost me more money? (poor retired professor here!) jorj **See https://directnic.com/hosting for one example. Simon **The cost of the LITE plan at DirectNic is $89 for 3 years. I would be happy to send a $50 donation with PayPal. Daniel **that is very generous! I will go ahead and sign up for three years. Then you guys can take over! :o) **I was going to suggest you could crowdfund it with Kickstarter. Maybe we'll try that in three years! Simon **Daniel, it's really impressive of you to be so proactive and generous when you've literally only just joined the community. Simon ***I figure it's best to give LFN a gentle push and see what happens Daniel **indeed! but my wife - holder of the purse strings - says you don't need to contribute. my treat, as we say here! :o) jorj As far as what name to use, I am at your mercy. Perhaps the two of you can decide, or add Sunido and Guido to the discussion. I guess I like "lingua-franca-nova.org" best. jorj *Personally, I feel that "lingua-franca-nova.org" is fine. I do like "Elefen" as a name though Guido (talk) *Do you have an opinion about the use of "elefen" as a domain name? Simon **I like "elefen" - I'm only concerned that it lacks recognition "power". on the other hand, the similarity of "elefen" to "elfen" might draw some interest (despite the disappointing Hobbit movies. My wife won't look at her beloved Watson with pointy ears and hairy feet!) jorj **"Elefen" actually seems ideal as a domain name – it's short and punchy, a single word, right for the Zeitgeist. "Lingua-franca-nova" feels clunkier. Which would you rather spell over the phone? (Martin Freeman is amazing as both Bilbo and Watson, but it's certainly weird to switch between Sherlock and The Hobbit in close succession!) Simon ***I have no strong opinion on the domain name. I see pros and cons either way, and I can get behind either one. Daniel ***"lfnova.org" is both easy to say and available. Daniel ***About "elefen": (Pro) it is short. (Con) It is very ambiguous if you just hear it. One is likely to interpret "lfn". Daniel ***since few of our interactions are likely to rely soley on voice, let's go with elefen.org. jorj ***Excellent. With regard to Daniel's (Con) argument: you can easily spell it out as E L E F E N. Simon done. now what? *I see the domain's functioning already. Have Directnic given you any instructions for how to set things up? Simon **At this point I have to rely on DirectNic's Knowledgebase, but this article seems to have the answer: Login to DirectNic with the account you created, and there should be a link on the Dashboard to the control panel, or you can go directly to http://elefen.org/cpanel and start poking around. Daniel **Once you find the control panel, you probably want to get Simon to look at it to help figure out how to get Joomla setup. Daniel **However, by an annoying coincidence of timing, I'll be offline for most of tomorrow. I'll be happy to help in the evening (about 22 hours from now). Simon **La documentos de Joomla pare bon e clar, e intendeda per aida comensores. Me ia usa nunca Joomla, ma me es un programor, donce me va (finje ce me) aprende rapida lo :) Simon If you are feeling impatient, you can email me (danielcatastrodotludotse) the DirectNic username and password and I can try to figure out how to get the site setup. Daniel *I am back. I think what I will do is download Joomla onto my own computer, along with something called XAMPP that will allow my computer to behave as a private webserver. I can then poke around in Joomla, experiment a bit, and get a feel for how to use it, without making a mess of the one at elefen.org. Simon *I'm now running Joomla here. I have to take back what I said yesterday about the documentation seeming nice and clear. The documentation is actually feeble, and largely out of date. The admin area of my demo site displays little explanations when I hover my mouse over each option, but the explanations are cryptic*, and use terminology that often isn't explained in the glossary page. I'm now googling for a straightforward technical guide that will just walk me through all the features, with a clear explanation of the purpose of each. Simon * * I've just come across a particularly baffling one that says "Please sort by order to enable reordering". Very strange. Simon *A! me veni de descovre un lista de documentos plu informosa sur Joomla, ascondeda en help.joomla.org. Me no comprende perce on no lia a esta de docs.joomla.org o an de la paje prima de help.joomla.org mesma. Bizara. Simon **Good to see you back. Here is the current status: We cannot access the control panel and that is preventing us from setting up the website. We have submitted support tickets to DirectNic and are waiting for a response. Jorj sent me the login details to DirectNic earlier today. I went to DirectNic, updated the nameservers and found the URL to the control panel. The name server change can take up to 24 hours to propagate, but at least in my location they seem to be propagated because now I can go to elefen.org/cpanel and that redirects me to the correct URL for the cPanel (which is currently unavailable). But if you go to elefen.org it redirects to a page that says "Account suspended" (I have submitted another support ticket about that). So... things are going slow. But it will get there in the end. Daniel **I think the help docs you found might be outdated. The current version of Joomla is version 3.2 but the help page you listed seems to be talking about version 1 or so. Daniel ***The help docs I found have screenshots that match the current version. Most of the other documentation I've found relates to 1.x or 2.5. But it sounds like you're confident you know what you're doing with it anyway, so maybe I should just leave it to you. Simon ****Any confidence I might have conveyed was entirely accidental. I feel very little confidence. I'm just hoping to get access to the control panel soon so I can at least install the darn thing. Daniel Message from the DirectNic staff: "There is an issue with the web server that your hosting account uses which affects your website(s) from displaying online. Our network operators are working to resolve the issue at this time and we will contact you again once the server is fully operational. We apologize for the inconvenience." So, I guess all we can do is sit and wait. Daniel *In the meantime, see these statistics, which indicate that WordPress is overwhelmingly the most popular CMS. It also seems to be much better and more widely documented. I suspect these two facts are related :) Simon **WordPress is not so much a CMS, but rather a blog software that has gradually absorbed some CMS-like features. It excels at making personal websites, and I used it for a few years in that capacity. WordPress is indeed simpler than Joomla, but I worry that we will find it very limiting. I also have experience with Drupal, in the context of a corporate website with many users. Drupal is much more complex than Joomla, and probably overkill for LFN. I have significantly less experience with Joomla, but I know that it sits somewhere between these two. ::: The good news is that we are not in any rush, and we can perfectly well set up several trial installations (e.g. elefen.org/drupal , elefen.org/joomla , elefen.org/wp). So we can actually try them out and decide from practical experience what we prefer. Daniel ::: This comparison is probably useful: https://www.udemy.com/blog/drupal-vs-joomla-vs-wordpress/ Daniel :::* Indeed. Joomla is presented there as the happy medium, which is what I always thought. My opinion of it may be clouded by the fact that I was extremely tired when I tried to get my head around it last night, which was no doubt a mistake! I realise that WordPress started life as a blogging tool, but it appears to be very capable of other things. Whether it's adequate depends on what we want the site to do. Perhaps we should draw up a list of desirable features here. Simon :::** The comparison also says that Joomla requires some learning and you can't just jump in and start using it. So that matches your experience. ::::::The first feature that we need is the ability to have 30 - 50 pages that aren't blogs (the introductions and the LFN for travellers pages already make up 26 pages). This is very basic, but last time I used WordPress I could not figure out how to make a page that did not add a like to the main menu bar. You can't have 30 links on a main menu. Maybe this has improved since. ::::::I think we can safely discard Drupal. It basically requires a hired professional to keep going. I did it for some years, but it was my job. ::::::*I agree. I recall spending a weekend perusing its documentation about five years ago. It interested me from a technical point of view, but I soon concluded it was preposterously complicated. Simon ::::::I wonder if either WP or Joomla have some plugin that would allow us to insert the latest news from Aora oji into the website. That would be fun, if it could work. Besides that, the only other feature that comes to mind is forums, but I would advice against managing forums. It takes a lot of time. If you wanted forums and were not happy with Wikia, the easiest reliable option is probably to make a Google Group. Daniel ::::::*Wikia seems OK for the forums at the moment. A Google group would be worth considering if we suddenly get inundated with enquiries, as it's much better archived. Regarding "Aora oji", I have to admit I'm starting to tire of producing it every day. It takes about an hour of my time, but typing endless reports of car bombs, riots, and political corruption doesn't give me any pleasure. I'm planning to continue until I've got 1000 posts (which will happen at about the end of the month), and may then change to posting fewer items each day and focusing on the quirkier or more uplifting stories. Simon ::::::**I think it is entirely reasonable to let people get their depressing news from somewhere else and focus on fun, quirky and uplifting stories. You could do a "favourite stories of the week" column. Daniel *I think it would be nice if the landing page (i.e. front page) was as simple and minimalistic as possible. A lot of project sites nowadays display just their name, a slogan, and a few simple examples of whatever it is they're promoting, arranged in slabs down the page, with little text but lots of links for the visitor to explore. Simon **I have some ideas for the front page. I will try to make a rough mockup to show you. Daniel **I just uploaded this file -- it's very rough, but it should give you a clear idea of the sort of thing I am thinking of for the front page. Daniel **That's a fabulous logo. I like the way it resembles a blossoming flower. My idea for the landing page was something more like this, with the classic list of "prinsipes gidante" made into a slideshow, and the language selectable by the visitor. That keeps the page "simple, coerente, e fasil aprendeda" (to coin a phrase), and avoids filling it up with repetitive text. Simon ***I really like your mockup. It is not only pretty, but it is clear and usable. What I mean by that is, (1) one can reasonably figure out what the website is about, (2) I think it is easy to find whatever you are looking for, and (3) people can find things that they may not realize were avaiable. For example, people might not necessarily expect to find a Facebook page (are we really on Twitter?) or stories. ::::The only issue in my mind is that I would like to show off books written in LFN. I don't see an obvious spot on your mockup for that, and I cannot easily see a way to alter it without running it. Maybe you can think of something. Daniel :::*Glad you like it! Images could be added at the bottom. Whenever something significant happens in the world of LFN, we could add a picture and a headline there, and link it to a relevant blog entry. ("Alisia" is currently the only book in LFN, and I suspect there aren't going to be hundreds more in the immediate future. There was talk of publishing the dictionary; I think Michael Everson, who published "Alisia" is still up for doing it, but if we do that, it feels like we lose the ability to ever adjust the vocabulary in the future.) And we're not on Twitter, but there's no reason why we couldn't be. Simon *Here's a mock-up done as a real page. Miqbos *Alo! I'm new to Elefen and I just started trying to learn it. I hope I write this message in the right place. **Bonveni! This is a good place for your message. Simon *First of all I have to say that I find the new web and the wikia are a great starting point for learning LFN. As a little contribution I changed some links in different wikipedias to link to the new web (most of them linked to the old one) and I have noticed that now if I search on Google it appears on a better position than before. **Thanks for increasing the site's PageRank. Simon *But when I started adding information in the wikipedias about LFN I thougt about some suggestions for improving the web: **I think a contact section or an e-mail for the web is really necessary. ***I agree. Bear in mind that what you see on the new site is currently a work in progress: we're busy creating the content at the moment. We're gradually filling in the introduction pages, using a simple system I've created that ensures they're all consistent. At some point in the next few days, we'll start applying the same system to the "viajores" pages, too. Simon **Maybe a Creative Commons license could be used in the web (like the one used in the wikia and the wikibooks grammar) otherwise the contect of the web can only be quoted with and autorization of the webmaster or organization (and there isn't an e-mail adress to contact with anyone). ***That's not a bad idea. Simon **The faq section in the web is not signed or have any license quotation but offers great informaton. Reading it I supose it's written by Boeree himself but it should be signed. I think it's better if every page offers information of the people who write it and the lincese, or about a generic organizaction like La Asosia per Lingua Franca Nova. My suggestion: CC-BY-SA / La Asosia per Lingua Franca Nova / --------@elefen.org ***The FAQ was written by George Boeree, yes. No formal organization yet exists for LFN. We should probably have a central email address for enquiries at elefen.org, and display it in the footer of every page of the new site (and perhaps more prominently on the FAQ page). Simon **Also I would like to translate "elefen per viajores" in other languages, how can I do it? ***Thanks for offering your help. What languages can you do? Once I've prepared the template for the "viajores" pages (a few days from now), I can show you how to go about filling it in for a particular language. Simon ****I can start translating it to the catalan language 21:25, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ****Thanks. A standard template for the "viajores" pages is now available here. If you look at the source of that page, you'll see that all it contains is a list of "name=translation" lines (and a link to a script that incorporates the translations into the finished page). Have a look at the German example to see how to fill it in. If you could post the list of "name=translation" lines for Catalan somewhere, e.g. below on this forum page, that would be great, and I can take it from there. Simon